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Andrew

Spider-Man: Homecoming

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I may not be able to see this until Tuesday at the latest cause of work, but I'm super pumped for it. My body is ready.

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4 hours ago, Andrew said:

Is awesome.  Discuss.

Absolutely loved it. Went in with high expectations, and they were exceeded. 

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As I posted in the movie log thread. 

This is one of my favorite MCU movies (outside of the Avengers films and Civil War).  The humor, the action, all the little quirks that makes it part of the MCU were amazing!

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I have a degree of interest in this but as it stands I can't justify ten dollars on another Marvel movie unless the reviews are truly outstanding, especially not with so much else in theaters i want to catch. I'll catch up with you guys on this when the DVD drops. 

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Is this movie really as good as Spider-Man 2 like some are saying or is it what I expect and people are just over-hyping a good movie and forgetting about any superhero movie that wasn't made over the past ten years?

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

Is this movie really as good as Spider-Man 2 like some are saying or is it what I expect and people are just over-hyping a good movie and forgetting about any superhero movie that wasn't made over the past ten years?

From what I've been reading, it sounds like anothet very good extremely fun Marvel movie, but nothing transcendent like Spider-Man 2. I don't think anybody is expecting anything transcendent from Marvel at this point, anyways, so it's probably best not to get your hopes up for another Dark Knight or Spidey 2 and just enjoy what sounds like a really excellent Spider-Man adaptation. 

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While I find it hard to believe I'd be able to not go see a Captain America or Spider-Man movie, I have considered retiring from the MCU after Avengers 4. The movies are mostly good but I've just been more and more bored with superhero movies lately. Like here we are with a new Spider-Man movie out and I'm still a few days away from seeing it. This would've been unheard of with the Raimi movies. I would've been insanely excited and there the first day. I just don't care as much anymore.

Probably the only thing that could get me really excited about a superhero movie again would be a Batman movie that isn't part of the DCEU and was out of DC's hands and in the hands of a good filmmaker.

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I think part of the problem is that a lot of people have put Spider-Man 2 up on a pedestal the same way we've done with The Dark Knight (both very good films but also more flawed then their legacies let on).  It's an excellent film, but to be fair, so is Spider-Man Homecoming, and I think we should focus less on comparing them and just let this new one breathe instead of holding it up to an impossible legacy.  Marvel have created the best first Spider-Man film ever here, and let's not forget that many times the second go-around is the best one.  Spider-Man, The X-Men, Captain America, Wolverine, Batman, all had first movies that were surpassed by the greatness of their second.  For Homecoming to even draw comparisons to Spider-Man 2 without the benefit of a first true film to build on is a very flattering comparison.

A great base has been established here and Spider-Man's got nowhere to go but up because he's in the hands of a studio that really KNOWS the character.  And I can't overstate enough how important it is that we've finally got a truly great casting choice in the red and blue, plus a good supporting cast too.  As good as the Raimi movies are, Maguire's timidness and Dunst's just overall terrribleness will always be a mark against them.  We don't have to worry about Tom Holland the same way at this juncture.

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4 minutes ago, Andrew said:

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people have put Spider-Man 2 up on a pedestal the same way we've done with The Dark Knight (both very good films but also more flawed then their legacies let on).  It's an excellent film, but to be fair, so is Spider-Man Homecoming, and I think we should focus less on comparing them and just let this new one breathe instead of holding it up to an impossible legacy.  Marvel have created the best first Spider-Man film ever here, and let's not forget that many times the second go-around is the best one.  Spider-Man, The X-Men, Captain America, Wolverine, Batman, all had first movies that were surpassed by the greatness of their second.  For Homecoming to even draw comparisons to Spider-Man 2 without the benefit of a first true film to build on is a very flattering comparison.

A great base has been established here and Spider-Man's got nowhere to go but up because he's in the hands of a studio that really KNOWS the character.  And I can't overstate enough how important it is that we've finally got a truly great casting choice in the red and blue, plus a good supporting cast too.  As good as the Raimi movies are, Maguire's timidness and Dunst's just overall terrribleness will always be a mark against them.  We don't have to worry about Tom Holland the same way at this juncture.

I think the thing with movies like the TDK and Spidey 2 is that even with flaws, they succeeded on a dramatic level that has always been rare in the genre and has been nearly nonexistent the past eight or so years, and that's what earned them that pedestal. It's a big part of why Logan was such a treat and why I've generally favored the X-movies for a while (Apocalypse notwithstanding).

Not that there's anything wrong with not going that route--look at DC's clusterfuck movie division and it's clear that it's far better for a movie to own its genre and nail all the right notes within it than overstretch, trying to be an epic when you don't have the chops to pull it off. But I do think that for their faults, Raimi and Nolan did a better job building emotional investment in their world and characters than nearly anybody else in the genre before or since, and I don't mind making them the measuring stick. 

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Also, it's been a long time since I've watched them, but was Dunst really that bad or was it just a poorly written character? Because she's been phenomenal in what I've seen her in recently. 

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3 hours ago, Andrew said:

1. Spider-Man, The X-Men, Captain America, Wolverine, Batman, all had first movies that were surpassed by the greatness of their second.

2. we've finally got a truly great casting choice in the red and blue

1. I wouldn't call The Wolverine great at all.

2. Even though TASM movies sucked, I didn't have any problem with Andrew Garfield. I thought he did a good job.

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7 hours ago, Andrew said:

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people have put Spider-Man 2 up on a pedestal the same way we've done with The Dark Knight (both very good films but also more flawed then their legacies let on).  It's an excellent film, but to be fair, so is Spider-Man Homecoming, and I think we should focus less on comparing them and just let this new one breathe instead of holding it up to an impossible legacy.  Marvel have created the best first Spider-Man film ever here, and let's not forget that many times the second go-around is the best one.  Spider-Man, The X-Men, Captain America, Wolverine, Batman, all had first movies that were surpassed by the greatness of their second.  For Homecoming to even draw comparisons to Spider-Man 2 without the benefit of a first true film to build on is a very flattering comparison.

A great base has been established here and Spider-Man's got nowhere to go but up because he's in the hands of a studio that really KNOWS the character.  And I can't overstate enough how important it is that we've finally got a truly great casting choice in the red and blue, plus a good supporting cast too.  As good as the Raimi movies are, Maguire's timidness and Dunst's just overall terrribleness will always be a mark against them.  We don't have to worry about Tom Holland the same way at this juncture.

It's just me, but I don't think it's fair to put Spider-Man 2 in the same league as The Dark Knight.

 

this is the best spider-man movie to date 

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7 hours ago, Nixon said:

It's just me, but I don't think it's fair to put Spider-Man 2 in the same league as The Dark Knight.

The Dark Knight is in a league of its own. Spider-Man 2 isn't close to it because no superhero movie is close to it. I don't think anything will top it as the best superhero movie ever. But as far as discussing the best superhero movies, Spider-Man 2 is definitely in the upper echelon which is why it can be in the conversation with TDK.

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Superhero power rankings time...

01. The Dark Knight
02. The Avengers
03. X2: X-Men United
04. Batman Begins
05. Spider-Man 2
06. Iron Man
07. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
08. Captain America: Civil War
09. Logan
10. Guardians of the Galaxy

A few thoughts...

- I'm confident with the final rankings of 1-7. The final three were tough to rank. I put Civil War ahead partly because it was fun throughout and I love the ending...there's no ticking time bomb, no big battle in the middle of a major city, nothing on the line. It's just three awesome characters with personal issues to settle fighting in the middle of nowhere with no one else there. Totally different from everything you see in these types of movies. Logan was very emotional and had me in tears at times and while I don't think it offers much in terms of replay value, it was still the perfect ending to the Logan character and the perfect ending to my generation of X-Men movies and I'll love it for that. GOTG is great but it doesn't leave as many lasting memories as the previous two so I have it behind them.

- It still pisses me off that Nolan couldn't stick the landing with The Dark Knight trilogy. This would've been up there with Star Wars as one of the greatest trilogies of all-time if TDKR didn't suck.

- No one really looks at it as a trilogy because it's all part of one universe, but the Captain America movies form one of the best movie trilogies ever. The first movie was an underrated, refreshingly different superhero movie with character development that is non-existent in the MCU nowadays and the next two movies were very awesome. How many trilogies are averaging 86% on Rotten Tomatoes? Not many I imagine.

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I'd put Logan at a similar level as TDK tbh. The Dark Knight is an interesting case though in the sense that while there's a handful of pacing issues and plot holes, for the most part it's an original and riveting big budget crime thriller that happens to star Batman. Nothing else has taken that route--the best MCU movies have similarly embraced genres, but they're usually one variety or another of action movie. Logan did it with the western, but it wasn't especially original or new. 

The only other superhero property that really formed a strong, original identity outside of being a superhero property is Legion, but it's on TV. 

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10 hours ago, Mike said:

How many trilogies are averaging 86% on Rotten Tomatoes? Not many I imagine.

Not to be a fanboy, but since we're already talking about Raimi, I'll submit... 

The Evil Dead - 95%

Evil Dead II - 99%

Army of Darkness - 72% 

Average: 89%

And for bonus... 

Ash vs Evil Dead 

Season 1: 98%

Season 2: 99%

 

But other than that, off the top of my head, Toy Story has to be the undisputed winner, the rebooted Planet of the Apes trilogy will probably average out in the 90s, the Before Sunrise/Sunset/Midnight series is all high 90s. I'd bet Paranormal Activity's first three are surprisingly high. For superhero movies, pretty sure TDKR got a higher than deserved score which probably has that series in the mid to high 80s, but that's about it. 

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tbh Batman Begins is getting mad disrespected in this conversation.  If Heath Ledger doesn't act his ass off in TDK, then BB goes down as the better movie.  It's a tighter, better written film.

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34 minutes ago, Andrew said:

tbh Batman Begins is getting mad disrespected in this conversation.  If Heath Ledger doesn't act his ass off in TDK, then BB goes down as the better movie.  It's a tighter, better written film.

Not from me. I've always had it about on par with TDK. I'd probably have it as the best of the trilogy if the final act was better--Scarecrow's last scene was such a disappointment. Still amazed they did the same shit with Bane in TDKR.

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My rankings:

#1 Captain America: Civil War
#2 The Dark Knight
#3 X-Men: First Class
#4 Captain America: Winter Soldier
#5 X-Men: Days of Future Past
#6 Spider-Man: Homecoming
#7 Captain America: The First Avenger
#8 The Avengers: Age of Ultron
#9 Ant Man
#10 Spiderman 2

I'm excluding non-comic book movies like UnbreakableChronocle, etc.

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4 hours ago, Andrew said:

tbh Batman Begins is getting mad disrespected in this conversation.  If Heath Ledger doesn't act his ass off in TDK, then BB goes down as the better movie.  It's a tighter, better written film.

Agree 100%

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5 hours ago, Andrew said:

tbh Batman Begins is getting mad disrespected in this conversation.  If Heath Ledger doesn't act his ass off in TDK, then BB goes down as the better movie.  It's a tighter, better written film.

While I don't consider it as good as TDK, I think having it at my #4 is still really good. Best comic book movie origin story ever. I think very highly of the movie. I loved the movie years ago well before TDK came out when it was very weirdly a hidden gem which seems odd because it was a Batman movie so you figured it would've been a bigger hit. 

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

when it was very weirdly a hidden gem which seems odd because it was a Batman movie so you figured it would've been a bigger hit. 

When Batman Begins came out, the only previous Batman movie that did better at the box office was the original Batman.

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