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Should We Ban Harty & DarkDragon?

Harty And DD: Stay Or Go?   18 members have voted

This poll is closed for new votes
  1. 1. Harty And DD: Stay Or Go?

    • Keep DD, but get rid of Harty
      7
    • Keep Harty, but get rid of DD
      1
    • Get rid of them both
      6
    • Keep them both
      4

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249 posts in this topic

Just now, DarkDragon said:

You're just waiting for me to slip up 1 last time so you can deliver the final killing blow against me. If you and your buddies were a bit smarter perhaps you could figure out a way to cause me to snap and seal my demise. So far I'm not falling for your trap.

I'd also like to point out that your vote does not count.

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5 minutes ago, DarkDragon said:

Oh yes it does. Not my fault you couldn't figure out a way to stop it.

It's kinda precious how you continue to be an asshole in the face of execution.

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You got it wrong. Its called pulling out all the stops. Yeah uh in theory my vote shouldn't count but in an act of desperation I have to exhaust all avenues available. Its called being tactical. Until he can figure out how to erase my vote I have to say it counts, right? Why would I say other wise if I'm trying to save myself?

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15 minutes ago, DarkDragon said:

You got it wrong. Its called pulling out all the stops. Yeah uh in theory my vote shouldn't count but in an act of desperation I have to exhaust all avenues available. Its called being tactical. Until he can figure out how to erase my vote I have to say it counts, right? Why would I say other wise if I'm trying to save myself?

Or I can just ignore it, which is what I'm planning to do. You could at least have a little dignity about this.

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I feel that I honestly have no problem co-existing on a board with DD and Harty. Do I cringe at some of what they say? Absolutely. Am I offended by any of it? Not really because I don't really have much investment in them feeling or thinking any sort of way to be hurt when they say something that might hurt me if a close friend said it. I think we waste more time deciding whether to ban them and being offended by what they say than is necessary. I haven't seen them write anything that I would equate to hatespeech. If someone can show my lazy ass where they might have crossed THAT line, I might be inclined to think differently, but just merely being insensitive is only enough to make me perhaps not love what the person has to say but certainly not enough to feel that their opinion should be excluded from the community. Otherwise my inclination will be to vote to keep them both. 

I do think we have to be careful not to be a lynch mob fueled by the tyranny of our own righteousness. No matter how ill-informed what one of them says may be, to me it does more societal harm to suppress views that we see as backwards. That's not the way to progress.

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19 minutes ago, Jamie said:

I do think we have to be careful not to be a lynch mob fueled by the tyranny of our own righteousness. No matter how ill-informed what one of them says may be, to me it does more societal harm to suppress views that we see as backwards. That's not the way to progress.

I'm not talking about suppressing DD for his views, I'm suppressing him for being a trolling dick.  I don't always agree with Mike's opinions but you won't see me calling for his head.

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16 minutes ago, Jamie said:

I do think we have to be careful not to be a lynch mob fueled by the tyranny of our own righteousness. No matter how ill-informed what one of them says may be, to me it does more societal harm to suppress views that we see as backwards. That's not the way to progress.

Having been a member of several message boards with varying degrees of rule, I dislike the idea that even if a member is seriously frustrating the community at large that they can't be banned because they haven't made a "serious infraction" when what comprises a "serious infraction" can be vague and different to multiple people. I would say that if a member is causing a detrimental experience to the majority then that is basis enough to eject them.

In the case of Harty and DarkDragon, they have been members here for multiple years and that's long enough for everyone to understand the effect they have on the community and why we've reached this point. This is not going to become a case of where "if you're not with us, you're against us" because certainly all of us have had disagreements at times and no one is consistently calling for Matt or Ruiner or Omar to be ejected. Harty and DD however, that continually comes up among multiple people. It reaches a point where you have to wonder if their presence is having a negative effect on the community, and indeed, maybe even holding the community back.

At any rate, after discussing this with Nixon, I'm going to leave this poll running a couple days longer and then a decision will be made.

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11 minutes ago, Andrew said:

I'm not talking about suppressing DD for his views, I'm suppressing him for being a trolling dick.  I don't always agree with Mike's opinions but you won't see me calling for his head.

Right. And again, I haven't seen what DD/Harty recently said to reinvigorate this conversation. But to me, I don't see DD as trolling. I think he says things that he genuinely means and feels in those moments, whether they're unfathomable to you or me. He may also say things with the intent of making you mad, but I also think that's his way of acting out because he feels so hated and disrespected by you. I'm not saying that he hasn't earned your feeling that way towards him, but he doesn't ever go out of his way to troll me because he doesn't feel me hating him. I also don't know DD and am not a Psychiatrist, but sometimes I get a bit of an Aspergers/Autism spectrum kinda vibe from him that makes me more sympathetic to him when he doesn't "get it."

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1 minute ago, Jamie said:

He may also say things to make you mad, but I also think that's his way of acting out because he feels so hated and disrespected by you.

Or, like any troll, he picks a target he knows he can get a rise out of.

Listen I've put up with this shit for years and I know it's not noticeable to as many people, but if it were you he was always making a point about harassing, you'd be sick of this shit too.  He makes this board actively less fun for me.  I don't see how justifying his behavior makes it any more acceptable.

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5 minutes ago, pen said:

Having been a member of several message boards with varying degrees of rule, I dislike the idea that even if a member is seriously frustrating the community at large that they can't be banned because they haven't made a "serious infraction" when what comprises a "serious infraction" can be vague and different to multiple people. I would say that if a member is causing a detrimental experience to the majority then that is basis enough to eject them.

In the case of Harty and DarkDragon, they have been members here for multiple years and that's long enough for everyone to understand the effect they have on the community and why we've reached this point. This is not going to become a case of where "if you're not with us, you're against us" because certainly all of us have had disagreements at times and no one is consistently calling for Matt or Ruiner or Omar to be ejected. Harty and DD however, that continually comes up among multiple people. It reaches a point where you have to wonder if their presence is having a negative effect on the community, and indeed, maybe even holding the community back.

At any rate, after discussing this with Nixon, I'm going to leave this poll running a couple days longer and then a decision will be made.

This may be true. I guess that I haven't been negatively affected by them. But I don't want to vote to keep them just because it hasn't affected me. I want to know where they crossed the line but without having to go back through pages of threads that I never read just to properly legislate.

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3 minutes ago, Jamie said:

Right. And again, I haven't seen what DD/Harty recently said to reinvigorate this conversation. But to me, I don't see DD as trolling. I think he says things that he genuinely means and feels in those moments, whether they're unfathomable to you or me. He may also say things with the intent of making you mad, but I also think that's his way of acting out because he feels so hated and disrespected by you. I'm not saying that he hasn't earned your feeling that way towards him, but he doesn't ever go out of his way to troll me because he doesn't feel me hating him. I also don't know DD and am not a Psychiatrist, but sometimes I get a bit of an Aspergers/Autism spectrum kinda vibe from him that makes me more sympathetic to him when he doesn't "get it."

I actually made a comment a while back that I felt DD had some kind of social disorder and he basically told me to keep my opinions to myself.

At any rate, this is kind of speaking to what I said earlier in the thread, about how when Harty and DD don't affect a person's experience here, of course they aren't going to understand why other people have reached this boiling point. However, I believe the numbers speak for themselves.

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1 minute ago, Jamie said:

I want to know where they crossed the line but without having to go back through pages of threads that I never read just to properly legislate.

Then, no offense meant, but you're not going to get an answer because it's not about a single instance crossing the line; it's about multiple instances that have built up over time.

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Just now, pen said:

I actually made a comment a while back that I felt DD had some kind of social disorder and he basically told me to keep my opinions to myself.

At any rate, this is kind of speaking to what I said earlier in the thread, about how when Harty and DD don't affect a person's experience here, of course they aren't going to understand why other people have reached this boiling point. However, I believe the numbers speak for themselves.

And I may have gotten my armchair diagnosis from having read you saying just that. But I remember when I first got to TuneLab not experiencing DD as any type of real harrasser but rather as someone even you were somewhat chummy with as he knew the Pulse Music Board characters and all that. He made a favorable first impression on me and has treated me generally well since, which is perhaps why I'm more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in some cases. 

I actually see his baiting of Andrew as wanting Andrew to like him in some weird, twisted way. Like...he's trying to joke with him, but is also hurt that Andrew hates him so DD has to fixate on their feud and continually reignites it. Perhaps I'm naive or perhaps it doesn't matter even if I'm right, but I think on some level DD just wants to be loved and respected. I think that's a big part of why he shares so many bands that he discovers in the 'Bands to Know' section. He wants to be beloved as somewhat of a hero who discovers things and does good for the community, but feels that his good is not recognized, it eats him up inside, and then we bear the brunt of him acting out due to not being appreciated. I could be way off here, but that's really how I experience him. He wants love and attention and validation, and if he gets it, then he'll be a pleasant enough person. I say this because I've been nothing but nice and appreciative to him, and he's been fairly good to me in return.

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I honestly think that if Andrew were like "DD, you're a character...I don't understand you and never will, but you're alright by me," DD would relax and be a lot better. So much of DD's "trolling" is obvious attention-calling to their past conflict, and to me is a thinly veiled "since you already hate me, let me thumb it to you for doing so." That reeks of DD having hurt feelings and an immature way of handling it, or rather not having any idea how to handle it.

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2 minutes ago, Jamie said:

I honestly think that if Andrew were like "DD, you're a character...I don't understand you and never will, but you're alright by me," DD would relax and be a lot better. So much of DD's "trolling" is obvious attention-calling to their past conflict, and to me is a thinly veiled "since you already hate me, let me thumb it to you for doing so." That reeks of DD having hurt feelings and an immature way of handling it, or rather not having any idea how to handle it.

Again, I'm sorry, I don't see why this changes anything.  I don't care why he acts like this, the point is he does.  If he were saying all of this in the face of a banning that'd be one thing but he's staring down the barrel of the gun right now and continuing to act like a petulant child.  If his feelings are hurt or he wants to be validated or he has some sort of condition, he should be the one saying it and trying to make amends of his behavior.  You doing it for him is just speculation when all signs point to him just being a dick.

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21 minutes ago, pen said:

I actually made a comment a while back that I felt DD had some kind of social disorder and he basically told me to keep my opinions to myself.

I dont remember that. I have OCD and Anxiety disorder, not autism or asperbergers or whatever.

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17 minutes ago, Jamie said:

I honestly think that if Andrew were like "DD, you're a character...I don't understand you and never will, but you're alright by me," DD would relax and be a lot better. So much of DD's "trolling" is obvious attention-calling to their past conflict, and to me is a thinly veiled "since you already hate me, let me thumb it to you for doing so." That reeks of DD having hurt feelings and an immature way of handling it, or rather not having any idea how to handle it.

Some good points there. I think I made fun of him for watching wrestling, right ? I was like this is so bad I dont understand how anyone can watch it, I dont know anyone who watches it. Its more like we're different so there's a misunderstanding going on. No I probably shouldnt attack someone for something they enjoy but something caused me to think that way and I acknowledge it was wrong. Same thing with those crappy (my opinion) emo bands that he likes. Shouldnt have chastized him for liking that stuff but again its more of a I dont get you at all kind of thing so I dont know how to respond to you.

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9 minutes ago, DarkDragon said:

I dont remember that. I have OCD and Anxiety disorder, not autism or asperbergers or whatever.

I didn't claim to know. It's very hard to tell that about a person through text compared to actually meeting/interacting with them. I was the one who threw out those terms rather than Pen, and it was pure speculation. Carry on.

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I also have imaginary friends that I talk to (according to ruiner) but its not bad because the guy from Breaking Benjamin has them too ( you know what song)

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28 minutes ago, Jamie said:

someone even you were somewhat chummy with as he knew the Pulse Music Board characters and all that.

I have to point out that he only knows the Pulse Music Board "characters" because I mentioned the board here and he decided to poke around, not because I actively discussed anything about it with him.

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Also for the record, I never ever attacked you guys's looks or appearance at any time and maybe I deserve some credit for not being a dick or asshole and going there when I easily could have in a fit of rage. We all got flaws, man.

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