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Ruiner

The Leftovers

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56 minutes ago, Mike said:

The stuff with Nora and Kevin when they had tea was fantastic but I didn't like the rest of the episode at all. 

The whole time I was thinking in the back of my mind, "Man, Mike is going to hate this."

Granted, during that time I wasn't sure if I was looking at a hallucination or alternate universe. It wasn't until Kevin started talking sense that I realized "Oh. So this is actually happening."

I'm actually surprised they answered as much as they did and that the machine Nora went through actually worked. They didn't explain why the Departure happened but they confirmed that everyone who departed really is on their own separate plane of existence. That's fascinating to me.

I'm also glad this is confirmation that Laurie did not actually commit suicide, although I am sad that Matt ended up passing.

The whole episode was poignant as fuck. I thought for sure this was gonna be some kind of race against time to stop Nora from going into the machine, but what actually happened was strangely more satisfying emotionally than something more visceral and actiony.

And I'm glad Nora and Kevin have a sort of happy ending, even if it was years in the making.

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5 hours ago, pen said:

The whole time I was thinking in the back of my mind, "Man, Mike is going to hate this."

Granted, during that time I wasn't sure if I was looking at a hallucination or alternate universe. It wasn't until Kevin started talking sense that I realized "Oh. So this is actually happening."

I'm actually surprised they answered as much as they did and that the machine Nora went through actually worked. They didn't explain why the Departure happened but they confirmed that everyone who departed really is on their own separate plane of existence. That's fascinating to me.

I'm also glad this is confirmation that Laurie did not actually commit suicide, although I am sad that Matt ended up passing.

The whole episode was poignant as fuck. I thought for sure this was gonna be some kind of race against time to stop Nora from going into the machine, but what actually happened was strangely more satisfying emotionally than something more visceral and actiony.

And I'm glad Nora and Kevin have a sort of happy ending, even if it was years in the making.

To be fair, it's deliberately left to be totally possible that Nora is lying about the whole thing at end. There's definitely potential holes in her story. But the point is, like all great ambiguous endings, is that every possibility makes perfect sense for the character and the story. 

I'm not sure how to feel about Laurie being alive. It kind of cheapens the power of the ending of my favorite episode of the series (and probably one of my favorite TV episodes in general), but it is in service of the overall positive message about life that they want to send in the end, as opposed to "Certified", which had a miserable message. I suppose, predictably, I find the message of inescapable human misery to be more powerful, and ultimately wish on some level that the episode dedicated to it could go without compromise. 

But overall, with this series, they really set themselves up very well to do whatever the hell ending they wanted and it would work, and I think they still did a damn good job. The high point of the episode, to me, though, was Nora and Matt's conversation before she went through. Matt's monologue was fucking heartwrenching. 

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I watched the episode really late so I didn't feel like posting all of my thoughts. I'll do so now...

I was completely 100% satisfied with the stuff involving the device. I never in a million years thought that the people who departed would still be here, but in some alternate Earth (or perhaps our characters were in the alternate Earth). It was completely fascinating and makes me think of the Departure in a whole different way. It's amazing to think that to those people, the cast of our show were the ones who departed. I just assumed the people who left were picked to be in Heaven this whole time which would've been kinda dumb. I'm perfectly fine with no answer to why the Departure happened. That always seemed like something that would be left a mystery. I did want some answers and the stuff we got about that satisfied me greatly. I wonder if years down the line they'll make a show from the perspective of the people who departed. It might be cool seeing this world with very few citizens that was changed greatly.

So we know Kevin is not immortal (as hinted by his heart-attack) but why can he not die earlier in the series? Why are we led to believe he's god? And as expected, Imaginationland ended up being completely fucking pointless. Also, Kevin pretending to not know Nora was just some ploy done to confuse the audience for 3/4 of the episode. The explanation he gave made no sense whatsoever. So if you want a fresh start with someone, you just walk up to them and pretend you never really knew them and hope that they'll catch on or something? 

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

 

So we know Kevin is not immortal (as hinted by his heart-attack) but why can he not die earlier in the series? Why are we led to believe he's god? And as expected, Imaginationland ended up being completely fucking pointless.

If you paid attention, the point was that he destroyed that place so he can no longer return. So that is why he is no longer immortal.

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5 hours ago, Ruiner said:

 

I'm not sure how to feel about Laurie being alive. It kind of cheapens the power of the ending of my favorite episode of the series (and probably one of my favorite TV episodes in general), but it is in service of the overall positive message about life that they want to send in the end, as opposed to "Certified", which had a miserable message. I suppose, predictably, I find the message of inescapable human misery to be more powerful, and ultimately wish on some level that the episode dedicated to it could go without compromise.

Per Lindelof, originally Laurie was going to die but ultimately every writer on the show took issue with it because they felt they hadn't earned that ending for the character and it didn't make sense for her journey. Episode 6 was already in the bag but it was ambiguous enough that they were able to reverse their decision in this episode. 

Frankly, I agree with the writers. Sure, I was willing to sit for it, but her suicide didn't make sense to me, considering the headspace she seemed to be in at that point. And I guess suicide isn't ever supposed to make sense but I feel like it came too out of nowhere to sit well. I'm glad she ended up alright. 

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2 hours ago, pen said:

If you paid attention, the point was that he destroyed that place so he can no longer return. So that is why he is no longer immortal.

But why was he immortal in the first place? What did that place have to do with anything? And most importantly of all...how in the hell did any of it really matter to the main story at all? I wish they just never included any of that shit in. The story would've basically been exactly the same without it.

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

But why was he immortal in the first place? What did that place have to do with anything? And most importantly of all...how in the hell did any of it really matter to the main story at all? I wish they just never included any of that shit in. The story would've basically been exactly the same without it.

If you really think this, I just don't know what to tell you. 

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

But why was he immortal in the first place? What did that place have to do with anything? And most importantly of all...how in the hell did any of it really matter to the main story at all? I wish they just never included any of that shit in. The story would've basically been exactly the same without it.

Jesus Christ, sometimes a mind fuck is just a mind fuck. Lighten up.

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7 minutes ago, pen said:

Jesus Christ, sometimes a mind fuck is just a mind fuck. Lighten up.

And literally Kevin's entire character arc (and Matt's, John's, and Michael's, to a lesser extent, and by association Nora, Laurie, and Kevin Sr) for the last ten episodes was a direct result of International Assassin and the subsequent returns. If you think the show is exactly the same without those episodes I don't know what the fuck show you're watching. 

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