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Ruiner

The Leftovers

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45 minutes ago, Mike said:

I was always under the impression that he molested John's daughter. That's why John hated him and that's probably what caused that girl to join the GR.

 

30 minutes ago, Ruiner said:

While it seems like a part of John's character to me that he was molested as a boy which is a major source of him being the way he is when we meet him, this actually isn't a horrible theory, and it ties up up a lot of the loose ends if it was John--such as how it comes to be that John was molested as a boy, then marries his molester's daughter, has children with her, and then shoots him. Evie follows a more logical timeline. 

I actually didn't even think about the timetable being a factor but now that you lay it all out on the table like that, you're right. It's really odd to think that John would be molested, bottle up that anger all that time, and then confront Virgil later on in life. Not impossible, but with enough uncertainties to make it questionable. I have to wonder now if this is something that will be further explored at any point. It feels like it's not important to the current situation so it may just remain a loose end up for debate. Damn you Lindelof.

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2 hours ago, TaNbULL said:

 

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Also, when Michael returns after helping Kevin when he dies, Erika asks him where he had been. He says "your dad's."

 

Yeah, I read that after doing more research on this topic. Didn't remember that. But anyway, I've also read an interview with Lindelof that makes it sound like we might get more information on this during this season. If nothing else he made it clear he didn't want to clarify the situation in an interview, so I'm hoping that means we'll get more background.

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So I just finished watching episode 2.

Spoiler

I'm glad they resolved the "mystery" of Lily and Erika fairly quickly, and while I'm glad that Erika appears to be coping with everything that's happened fairly well, I'm a little less enthused that the reason for Lily's disappearance is because Christine returned to take custody. I realize it is her right but I also kind of remember how she dumped Lily at the earliest possibility when she was born so... I'm conflicted. Between that and Matt's wife really booking it between episodes, it really seems like the field of players is being cleared in rapid succession.

Other little bits I enjoyed.

  • I was actually surprised that Mark Lynn Baker actually showed up in this episode as himself and presented an alternate side of the grief from the Departure. I really felt bad for him, and it also put the choice of using the theme song from Perfect Strangers as the new theme song for this season in hilarious perspective.
  • They really put Nora through the ringer this episode. From the bits in Jarden with the Pillar Man's wife and then the call from Mark to his sales pitch to the visit to Lily... just an endless string of emotional weather. As goofy as the trampoline scene with Erika was, I think it was necessary to allow Nora a bit of enjoyment in the midst of all the tension. And what's up with all the mechanical failures? Coincidence? Something more?
  • I love that Nora recognizes that she and Kevin are so utterly fucked up that when she walks in on Kevin asphyxiating himself, her response is to comfort Kevin that it's okay and he doesn't need to explain. Very much a repeat of the scene from a previous season (maybe early in Season 2? When they're still in Mapleton?) where she admits that she hired people to shoot her and he admitted his laundry list of issues. Good times.

Now, the real meat. What the fuck was up with that end scene? The bit of the ladies trying to locate someone named Kevin made me think this was taking place in the future again like the end of last episode, where Nora denied knowing a Kevin, but the appearance of Kevin Sr. seems to bring things back to the present. So does that mean they're looking for him? But then the passages they quote and the test they made for "Kevin" seem to imply they're talking about Kevin Jr.

I have a feeling that all this has to do with Matt's gospel or at least that's the implication from the events we've witnessed, but if this is taking place in present day then no one in Australia should know about the book, so why they're looking for Kevin is a mystery to me. And this also brings into question where the Nora scene fits into things. I could be way off but after this episode I'm wondering if that scene with Nora isn't as far into the future as they'd like us to believe.

Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how this pretzel untangles. Six more episodes. I am a sad panda.

 

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15 hours ago, pen said:

1. Between that and Matt's wife really booking it between episodes, it really seems like the field of players is being cleared in rapid succession.
2. And what's up with all the mechanical failures? Coincidence? Something more?
3. I'm wondering if that scene with Nora isn't as far into the future as they'd like us to believe.
4. Six more episodes.

No need for spoiler tags. It's fair game after it airs and I think people know to stay away from a TV show thread unless they're all caught up.

1. I like it. Cleaning house and only focusing on the core characters near the end.

2. It reminded me of The Simpsons when Bart sold his soul to Millhouse and went to walk in the Kwik-E-Mart but the electric door wouldn't open for him. Maybe Nora has no soul.

3. Maybe she goes through the radiation machine and that is what causes her to age.

4. Really? Well that sucks. I assumed this season would be ten episodes.

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This season is shaping up to be one of the all-time best seasons of television. I've seen extremely impressed so far. I feel like The Leftovers is gonna catch on with time and be a hidden gem that people will discover over the years. A really terrific show that you can watch the complete story in 28 episodes.

Oh and for the record I have no clue who that TV show guy was, no clue what show he was on and I had no idea the opening song was in reference to that show.

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Who remembers Perfect Strangers? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

I also found out that Family Matters was a Perfect Strangers spinoff. I never knew that. 

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Tonight's episode was brutal. Between Kevin's psychotic break, Nora's meltdown at being rejected, and their nuclear argument, the cherry on top was Kevin telling his dad he was there alone.

I hope they unfuck themselves and realize that they're stronger together than apart. Although Nora's "story" about their toxic relationship was pretty funny.

I'm not sure I'm ready for next week's cut to the misadventures of Two Loons And A Shrink.

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I forgot to add that last week's episode had one great moment...when Kevin's dad falls off the roof and the next thing you see the guy he was with in an ambulance about to die. Possibly the funniest moment in the whole series.

17 hours ago, pen said:

Nora's meltdown at being rejected

I was so disappointed with that. This was a good episode but that bothered me. I kinda knew what answer she was going to give and I was convinced whatever answer she gave would prevent her from using the machine. I hope that's not the last we hear of this device. I want to see her go through it.

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Kevin Sr.'s delivery of "...that doesn't make any fucking sense." after being told Isaac was 36 got a genuine belly laugh out of me. 

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1 hour ago, Ruiner said:

Kevin Sr.'s delivery of "...that doesn't make any fucking sense." after being told Isaac was 36 got a genuine belly laugh out of me. 

Huh??

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Mike, it's weird to me reading this thread from page one how you can enjoy this show so much but have missed the point on so many of the show's best scenes. Both of Matt's standalone episodes are 2 of my favorite episodes of the entire show. Your opinion of Kevin's "going crazy" is craaaaaazy to me lol. And like Ruiner said, surely you zoned out of the episode with the well early on and didn't watch it all. Because Kevin and Patty at the bottom of the well had me in tears.

 

As far as the newest episode, it's wild to me because the answer that she gave was the opposite answer that the man who lit himself on fire gave. So what IS the right answer? 

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1 hour ago, Nixon said:

Huh??

When Kevin Sr. was talking to Matt on the phone and used the story of Abraham and Isaac, from the Bible, to illustrate that there were kids in the original bible. Matt corrects him by telling him that when Abraham took Isaac up the mountain to sacrifice him, he was actually 36 years old. Kevin, after a couple seconds to process it, goes in total deadpan "That doesn't make any fucking sense", because with that context the story starts to sound rather preposterous.

Also, I think it's not "yes" or "no" for the baby question, but more how you answer it. Nora treated it pretty trivially and almost like a joke.

Post-script: I don't recall it hitting me quite so hard the first time around, but when I rewatched the later season two episodes to get ready for the new season, that scene at the bottom of the well tore me up too, good and proper. Ann Dowd is like a somehow improved version of Margo Martindale.

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Favorite episodes to date:

1. "I Live Here Now" (S2E10)
2. "International Assassin" (S2E8)
3. "Two Boats and a Helicopter" (S1E3)
4. "Ten Thirteen" (S2E9)
5. "Guest" (S1E6)

Honorable mentions: "No Room at the Inn", "A Most Powerful Adversary", "The Prodigal Son Returns", "G'day Melbourne"
 

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1 hour ago, Ruiner said:

Also, I think it's not "yes" or "no" for the baby question, but more how you answer it. Nora treated it pretty trivially and almost like a joke.

I agree that Nora's delivery was likely what made them decide to abort mission but the problem with "how you answer it" is what happens when someone literally just says yes or no? Do they then ask for clarification or to expand upon the answer?

The other theory I've seen posited around the net is that maybe there's an answer that's neither yes or no. Like maybe in answering the question you're already failing the test. I'm kind of curious if the real answer has anything to do with the fact that the babies in the riddle are twins? Seems like a strange modifier to the question if it's meaningless, or maybe I'm thinking too hard about this.

Anyway, this article is interesting because it wraps all the theories together in a neat little bow.

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/05/the-leftovers-what-was-the-right-answer-to-the-baby-question-season-3-episode-4-s03e04/

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1 hour ago, Ruiner said:

Favorite episodes to date:

1. "I Live Here Now" (S2E10)
2. "International Assassin" (S2E8)
3. "Two Boats and a Helicopter" (S1E3)
4. "Ten Thirteen" (S2E9)
5. "Guest" (S1E6)

Honorable mentions: "No Room at the Inn", "A Most Powerful Adversary", "The Prodigal Son Returns", "G'day Melbourne"
 

Solid list. Solid list. I approve this message.

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One more thing about the baby question. We've seen Kevin Sr. answer and we've seen Nora answer. Do you think we'll see Kevin Jr. answer?

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15 hours ago, pen said:

Do you think we'll see Kevin Jr. answer?

No one he knew departed so he really has no reason to take the test...other than if they want to see if He survives. While he killed little child Patty in Imaginationland, I don't think he'd agree to the baby dying to prevent cancer. 

Me personally, as someone whose mother is a breast cancer survivor and someone whose three out of four grandparents have died of cancer...yeah I'd shoot the baby out of a cannon if I had to if it could get rid of cancer.

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13 hours ago, Ruiner said:

That's the guy I was telling you about. 

I didn't realize until after the episode and reading reviews but that guy was the same guy Kevin met in the afterlife who helped him escape. What does that mean?

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10 minutes ago, pen said:

I didn't realize until after the episode and reading reviews but that guy was the same guy Kevin met in the afterlife who helped him escape. What does that mean?

It could mean nothing. Only other thing I can think of (that isn't a bit too absurd for my tastes) is that he made it out not long after Kevin did and returned to the mortal coil (Kevin's two trips were in a 24 hour span, so it makes enough sense) and decided to start calling himself god.

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6 hours ago, Ruiner said:

It could mean nothing. Only other thing I can think of (that isn't a bit too absurd for my tastes) is that he made it out not long after Kevin did and returned to the mortal coil (Kevin's two trips were in a 24 hour span, so it makes enough sense) and decided to start calling himself god.

I guess that makes sense that they just happened to both be in the afterlife at the same time, but it doesn't exactly explain why he already knew the way out and why he bothered to help Kevin.

It's interesting though because he told Matt in this last episode that it wasn't Jesus who was resurrected but that he had a twin brother who appeared. The second to last episode of this season is actually called "The Most Powerful Man In The World (And His Identical Twin Brother)" and from what I've heard, that episode will be the "International Assassin" of this season.

Very intrigued to see how this all fits together...

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