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Ruiner

The Leftovers

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So someone at work got me into this show and I binged watched the whole series thus far over the last couple days and I have to say it is phenomenal. I came into this knowing it was going to be a bit of a mind-fuck but not knowing it was going to have so much emotional weight going on, and combined with the excellent choice of music through each episode, I've found the plight of these characters to be especially moving. I really hope Kevin manages to hold onto his happiness now that his family is together again. I'm also kind of curious to know what will happen to the Murphys now that their family has fallen apart. I like Lindelof's comment that the Murphys are basically going through their Season 1, so I'm curious if Season 3 has them continue to develop with the Garveys or if the Garveys go off somewhere new and we leave the Murphys to whatever happens. Hoping for the former. I also like how this show has me genuinely caring for the fate of especially flawed individuals.

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Yeah I've revisited episodes and parts of season two quite a few times, especially the finale, which, despite a couple of quirks, is probably my favorite season finale in quite a while. Looove the recurrence of "Where is My Mind"? 

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4 hours ago, Dylan said:

Yeah I've revisited episodes and parts of season two quite a few times, especially the finale, which, despite a couple of quirks, is probably my favorite season finale in quite a while. Looove the recurrence of "Where is My Mind"? 

I also want to add that this is the best I've seen from Liv Tyler in probably ever. I mean, she was fine in Season 1 but in Season 2 after going full blown psychotic, she's been great. The scene in the finale with Meg just singing the Miracle song and smiling at Kevin is totally creepy and I'm curious what she does in Season 3 now that she's got a base of operations and has gone completely off the rails.

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The Leftovers: Season Three (seven episodes sent for review)

Collider: 5/5
Variety: 10/10
Newsday: A-
Vulture: 10/10
The New York Times: 9/10
Indiewire: A+
UPROXX: 10/10

Den of Geek: 5/5
TV Fanatic: 5/5

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33 minutes ago, pen said:

Heh, so they sent all but the finale. Awesome. We should be in for a good ride.

It's interesting because most of the time critics only get 2-3 episodes to do their early reviews, but they got damn near the whole thing. It's awesome news, because we're pretty much guaranteed an amazing season of TV where with most great early season reviews all you know is how it is to start. It's not often that there's near certainly that a season of TV is going to be awesome, especially one like The Leftovers that could jump the shark at any moment. 

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Metacritic rating keeps getting higher and higher against all odds with every new review. 98 right now. This is shaping up to be one of the most acclaimed seasons of TV ever. 

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3 hours ago, Mike said:

Spectacular premiere episode with a jaw-dropping ending that Damon Lindelof wrote in full Lost mode.

I knew I was watching The Leftovers when I had to stop and say "Wait. What?" like five times during the episode. I have so many questions that I can't wait to see unravel over the course of the season, such as...

Spoiler

Where's Erika? She's obviously not with John anymore for whatever reason since John hooked up with Laurie (which I did not see coming). Did she split after what happened to Evie?

Where's Lily? Something obviously happened to her since she doesn't seem to be in the picture. I read some folks speculating that Erika might have taken Lily, which only makes sense because it's a neat way to explain the whereabouts of both characters.

Are Evie and Megan really dead? I honestly thought Evie was becoming a main character this season and while it was amusingly shocking that they both bit the dust in the first ten minutes of the episode, I was kind of looking forward to a bigger endgame from Megan. Plus, if Megan's dead, do the Guilty Remnant have any purpose in the show now? Have we moved on from them?

Are dog people real? I'm joking. Maybe. But are they real?

I really hope Mary doesn't end up leaving Matt. It would really suck after all that Matt's went through to lose Mary but then again he's doing it to himself with all this religious madness, although he also has a solid foundation for said madness, so I dunno. I mean, what if he's right and she totally does fall back into a coma after leaving Miracle? That would be fucking nuts and yet absolutely plausible for this show.

Finally, what the fuck is with time traveling Nora? Is this time travel? I can't think what else it could be and if it is, definitely invoking Lost here. While I will defend Lost to the death, a part of me can't help but also hope there's a solid reason for bringing time travel into the picture when there's already so much madness going on.

Anyway, can't wait for the next episode. Why oh why can't we just get them all and binge them?

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I don't think it's time travel. My first instinct tells me it's a time jump--and the events of the season will lead us to why Nora is elderly in Australia claiming to have never known a Kevin. 

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I was close to going to bed after I watched the episode so I waited until now to most my more in-depth thoughts on the premiere...

- I like how it appears that they're getting rid of some dead weight to have a more streamlined and focused final season. They killed the crazy bald guy who was the only witness to the crazy Kevin crap from season 2. Wayne was a pointless character that never amounted to anything and now his stupid baby is off the show. And Matt's wife, not against her, but I want the focus to be on the core cast and I don't think we need her dragged along for the ride this season. I'm happy with the decisions to remove these elements of the show and I'm curious how the loss of these final two things impacts Matt and Nora.

- One of my biggest unanswered questions is the beginning of the season 2 premiere. Not that it was particularly interesting...I'm just curious how it factored into the rest of the show. I hope they explain it.

- I loved how we saw the origins of the Guilty Remnant, along with the fantastic theme music for the show, and then that totally shocking missile launch. That was crazy. Like Pen, I was also very curious to see what Megan had planned and it would be unfortunate to not see that.

- One thing I was confused about...when Kevin was in the police station talking to the dog shooting bald guy, you see a quick flash of a man pushing a little girl into a well. What was that all about?

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14 minutes ago, Mike said:

I was close to going to bed after I watched the episode so I waited until now to most my more in-depth thoughts on the premiere...

- I like how it appears that they're getting rid of some dead weight to have a more streamlined and focused final season. They killed the crazy bald guy who was the only witness to the crazy Kevin crap from season 2. Wayne was a pointless character that never amounted to anything and now his stupid baby is off the show. And Matt's wife, not against her, but I want the focus to be on the core cast and I don't think we need her dragged along for the ride this season. I'm happy with the decisions to remove these elements of the show and I'm curious how the loss of these final two things impacts Matt and Nora.

- One of my biggest unanswered questions is the beginning of the season 2 premiere. Not that it was particularly interesting...I'm just curious how it factored into the rest of the show. I hope they explain it.

- I loved how we saw the origins of the Guilty Remnant, along with the fantastic theme music for the show, and then that totally shocking missile launch. That was crazy. Like Pen, I was also very curious to see what Megan had planned and it would be unfortunate to not see that.

- One thing I was confused about...when Kevin was in the police station talking to the dog shooting bald guy, you see a quick flash of a man pushing a little girl into a well. What was that all about?

1. That wasn't the origin of the Guilty Remnant--Patti started the GR, after the Departure. That was set in something that actually happened, the Great Disappointment, and it was presumably only thematically connected to the plot for the season, much like the BC stuff at the beginning of season two. 

2. The crazy bald guy wasn't in season two at all, all that crazy Kevin crap was in season one, and I'm also happy they dismissed him as an actual crazy guy and not some weird spiritual guide like he felt like in season one.

3. That was Kevin pushing Patti down the well in "International Assassin", and I'm not sure how one forgets that moment. I don't really know why Kevin thought of it at that moment though. 

4. I think the whole point of that scene was that Meg didn't actually have a plan beyond taking over the city, and had a much more casual relationship with the GR ideology than the people she had under her spell. She had already executed her big plan, and hadn't really thought much about what comes after. 

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I forgot how rusty I am with this show. I feel like I haven't watched it in five years.

3 minutes ago, Ruiner said:

The crazy bald guy wasn't in season two at all, all that crazy Kevin crap was in season one

Wasn't he in that cabin with Kevin? I thought that was season 2. I remember hating season 2 because of that stuff and Kevin seeing visions which is an overused and crappy TV plot device.

5 minutes ago, Ruiner said:

That was Kevin pushing Patti down the well in "International Assassin", and I'm not sure how one forgets that moment.

Ohhhhhh yeah. I hated that episode. The Sopranos did a fake episode like that one time as well.

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Just now, Mike said:

I forgot how rusty I am with this show. I feel like I haven't watched it in five years.

Wasn't he in that cabin with Kevin? I thought that was season 2. I remember hating season 2 because of that stuff and Kevin seeing visions which is an overused and crappy TV plot device.

Ohhhhhh yeah. I hated that episode. The Sopranos did a fake episode like that one time as well.

1. No, Kevin seeing visions and stuff like that was all in season one. The nightmares, the dog and deer stuff, the bald dude, the blackouts, kidnapping Patti. The only thing that qualifies as such in season two is the dead Patti/afterlife stuff, all of which has been pretty heavily implied to be unambiguously real, so I don't think it counts as "crazy visions". 

What qualifies something as a "fake episode"? 

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5 minutes ago, Ruiner said:

What qualifies something as a "fake episode"? 

When a character gets knocked out, is in a coma or is crazy and they "wake up" in some fake life. Usually there is a theme or event in this dream world that ties into the real events going on but it's all quite pointless.

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1 minute ago, Mike said:

When a character gets knocked out, is in a coma or is crazy and they "wake up" in some fake life. Usually there is a theme or event in this dream world that ties into the real events going on but it's all quite pointless.

Well, in this instance the events of the "dream" world have been and promise to continue to be rather crucial and central to the "real" events of the show. And I'm still not sure why you choose the word "fake". A character in that world even directly says "This is more real than it's ever been". Are you sure you didn't think to yourself "this is clearly a FAKE EPISODE" in the first five minutes and stop paying attention to any of it? 

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My eagerness to discuss this show with Mike has been steadily declining as I've read through this conversation. :(

Anyway, I'll add that the opening to Season 2 with primitive man is thematically linked to the show and not the kind of thing that's going to get "explained ", because there isn't really anything to explain. 

The International Assassin stuff was not "fake". For starters, he wasn't in a "coma". He died. We see from this episode that his death and rebirth is profoundly affecting all of them. Hell, Kevin even asked Michael if he told them about the hotel and Michael said it seemed important. Kevin offhandedly told Tommy about killing Patti in the hotel like it was a real thing that happened. They definitely are not glossing over these events.

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

Wasn't he in that cabin with Kevin?

You may be confusing him with John's father, who was the guy who helped Kevin die and enter limbo to confront Patti in the hotel.

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4 minutes ago, pen said:

You may be confusing him with John's father, who was the guy who helped Kevin die and enter limbo to confront Patti in the hotel.

Erica's father. 

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3 hours ago, Ruiner said:

I don't really know why Kevin thought of it at that moment though.

I think the implication, since Kevin has flashbacks to International Assassin throughout the episode, is that he is still profoundly affected by the experience but not willing to admit it. I've read the asphyxiation ritual we see is a symptom of that as well; that Kevin is trying to either recreate his trip or the feelings associated with it.

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4 minutes ago, Ruiner said:

Erica's father. 

(Googles)

Well now I'm really confused. I didn't catch that; I just assumed. But now I'm realizing I assumed a lot about that side of things. Did Virgil molest John? Wasn't that the point? Cause I'm now reading multiple theories on the subject that makes me realize how ambiguous it was left and I'm wondering if this is still a mystery I should care about.

Also, I think you might be right about the Nora bit being a flash forward and not time travel cause some articles are saying that scene is in Australia. The dove had me fooled!

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I do think the Nora thing is probably a flash-forward as I remember reading a headline from an article a few weeks back mentioning that this season leaves no room for further seasons or spinoffs. So that probably means we'll be seeing these characters until the end of their lives.

30 minutes ago, pen said:

Did Virgil molest John?

I was always under the impression that he molested John's daughter. That's why John hated him and that's probably what caused that girl to join the GR.

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2 minutes ago, Mike said:

I do think the Nora thing is probably a flash-forward as I remember reading a headline from an article a few weeks back mentioning that this season leaves no room for further seasons or spinoffs. So that probably means we'll be seeing these characters until the end of their lives.

I was always under the impression that he molested John's daughter. That's why John hated him and that's probably what caused that girl to join the GR.

While it seems like a part of John's character to me that he was molested as a boy which is a major source of him being the way he is when we meet him, this actually isn't a horrible theory, and it ties up up a lot of the loose ends if it was John--such as how it comes to be that John was molested as a boy, then marries his molester's daughter, has children with her, and then shoots him. Evie follows a more logical timeline. 

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